CHARLESTON, W.Va. — West Virginia Revenue Secretary Bob Kiss told MetroNews Thursday it’s time to apply some medicine to the state’s revenue ills. 

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State Revenue Secretary Bob Kiss says time for action on state budget.

December revenue collections missed estimates once again putting the state $66 million behind estimates through the first six months of the fiscal year.  

“It is time to start taking some action and I think you’ll see that action in the next several days,” Kiss said.

Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin, Kiss, the budget staff and others have been reviewing options. Kiss said they have a plan to deal with a $70 million shortfall. He said the tools are familiar ones.

“There could be mid-year budget cuts. They can take the form of the elimination of a capital expenditure that maybe doesn’t need to be done this year. It can be deferred. Also hiring freezes,” Kiss suggested.

Revenues from personal income tax and consumer sales tax continue to be behind where the state thought they would be this budget year. Kiss said there are some signs the economy is beginning to takes steps forward but they need more evidence.

“We need to see that for several months in a row and it’s right now a delicate situation,” he said. “We’re watching it and trying to decide what medicine to apply. Clearly, we’ve come to the conclusion that medicine needs to be applied. We don’t want to apply too much medicine or too little,” he said.

Leading lawmakers have also been involved in the budget discussions according to Kiss.

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Comments

  • Fubar

    Hop'sHip: Come to Elkins - they're packing them in behind the federal building at the First Ward apts. Dey not bees from here. Local slum lord has apartment buildings all over Elkins. HUD takes care of most of these residents.
    There was a noticeable spike in crime over past 10 months.
    Back to main topic:
    According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, for example, West Virginia sits in spot number 52 out of 53 possible places for creating new jobs in the United States, rankings that also include Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Washington, D.C.
    I've said this before on WV Metro News: You get what you vote for.

    • Jason412

      There was not a noticeable spike in the crime rate in Elkins from the 15 or so black people that moved into Central School Building.

      My girlfriend's family is from the area, and I spent a good bit of time there this summer so I have quite a few friends in the area that never mention this "spike in crime". I read the online edition of the newspaper everyday, and never see anything about this.

      Please show me some newspaper articles showing this "spike in crime" I think I remember seeing 1 like 70 year old man from VA stab someone. That does not count as a spike in crime.

      The spike in crime I noticed in Elkins was from all the white meth heads, is that the one you refer to?

      Here an article from your local paper
      "If Virginians were being told to move to West Virginia to obtain HVC funding in a more expedient manner, Jacobson said she was unaware of such advice.

      "I hadn't heard that," Jacobson said. "Our waiting list is full, so I'm not sure that would be very good advice."

      Nonresidents make up only 2 to 3 percent of the families that RCHA delivers Section 8 vouchers to each year"
      http://www.theintermountain.com/page/content.detail/id/562422/Sequester-cuts-affect-local-HUD-funding.html?nav=5014

      When I was there over the summer I heard the same nonsense "the blacks are destroying are town" but every newspaper article you read is about some white meth cook, white burglar, or white wife beater.

      I'm sorry you're town is no longer 97%+ Caucasian and is now about 96% Caucasian. It must be devastating.

      • Jason412

        Just want to point out Elkins is the same town that had an article in the paper about a "Mexican gang moving in" a few years ago when there were like 5 Mexican's riding around on bicycles.

        • Jason412

          Sorry bout all the typo's in the first post, "our" not 'are' and 'your' not "you're"

      • The bookman

        I agree. The problems are surrounding meth and petit larceny...not violent crime.

      • Hop'sHip

        Thanks Jason. That article you referenced (and the accompaning comments) clarified for me what this is all about. Thanks again.

      • susanf1218

        Well, the Housing Director didn't outright deny that this was happening - she just said she was "unaware" of people being told to come to WV. How convenient for other states to urge their HUD families to move away - less burden on them and WV becomes the dumping ground for more economic dependents that the tax paying, working public has to support.

        • Jason412

          She also says the waiting list is full, and it wouldn't make sense.

          Then it says, as a fact, that non-residents only make up 2-3% of Randolph County's HUD.

          You mention the comments section of that article, only 1 person is saying the same thing as you. I already acknowledged that a lot of people in Randolph County seem to think that's the truth, but it doesn't make it so. Or are you referencing the comment that says "I've been noticing a lot more shady people" yes, because as we all know, anybody who looks different is shady.

          Central Tower's is what? 30 apartments? Maybe 40 I can't remember. Say half the building is families from VA, so 20 tops. Are you seriously insinuating that 20 apartments worth of people is screwing HUD that bad.

          I'm still waiting for you or Fubar to show me something relating to the spike in crime, you obviously believe it to be the truth.

      • susanf1218

        Jason and Aaron - In your naivete and idealism, you fail to understand that it is about more than the HUD housing issue - it is a cumulative effect. These families relocate to WV, then they become eligible for Medicaid, Food Stamps, TANF possibly, and the end result is that the citizens of WV now pick up the tab and carry the burden of supporting even more people! Maybe you are o.k. with that, even if you work and pay taxes, but I am not. It is nothing more than cost shifting from one state to another, and this state can ill afford to take on even more!

        • Aaron

          I'm not sure I get what you stand for Susan. In the comments regarding government entitlements, you seem to be against enlarging them but when the conversation turns to state government, you have no problem enlarging that elephant. Normally fiscally conservatives are against enlarging both.

          So what gives?

          • susanf1218

            Who said anything about "enlarging" state government, Aaron?? Can you actually read and comprehend or do you just make assumptions about what other people think, to fit your own agenda? I am not in favor of enlarging state government, and as I have said, there is certainly room in government at ALL levels to do away w/some of the beauracracy (I don't think that is spelled right), but the front line state employees, who do the jobs and go year to year without any increase in salary are NOT the problem!

    • Hop'sHip

      Fubar: I was unable to confirm your US BLS ranking. Could you provide a reference? I did find this which showed WV having a dismal job growth record over the last year (April2012-April2013). But equally or even more dismal were Alabama, Alaska, Maine, Nebraska, Ohio, Wisconsin and Wyoming. I believe most of those states are controlled by the Republican Party. Just who do you suggest we vote for?

      http://www.pewstates.org/research/data-visualizations/how-many-jobs-did-your-state-create-85899483589

      • bulldog95

        Ohio may currently have a republican governor starting his 3rd year but if Obama can still blame Bush, then surely Ohio can blame Ted Strickland for his 8 years of rule.

        Maine, republican governor starting his 3rd year after 8 years of a democrat, John Baldacci.

        Wisconsin, republican governor starting his 3rd year after 8 years of democrat Jim Doyle.

        Alabama, Alaska, Nebraska, and Wyoming are red.

        Nice attempt at being truthful.

      • Jason412

        Hop'sHip:

        The part in Fubar's post about US BLS is from an article on this site. http://wvmetronews.com/2013/12/31/business-taxes-to-drop-at-start-of-new-year-gas-tax-to-rise/

    • susanf1218

      You speak the truth, Fubar.

  • Joe

    You all simply won't stop with the whining will you?!

    Professionals my arse.

  • Docbegone

    If you think it is bad now, wait three years when the state has to start paying its share of the increased Medicaid costs thanks to Obamacare and the same politicians in WV that want to apply "medicine". The inmates are running the asylum.

    • Jermane

      This is the dirty little secret that no one knows about.

      The state will be required to pick up the tab of all these people on Medicaid as the result of Obamacare. That's free health care, people. Free except for the taxpayers who have to cover the bill.

      It will require millions and millions of additional tax dollars to cover it.

      Where is that money coming from? Take a wild guess.

  • zero tolerance

    Bring on the teacher and state employee rants because we all know they are the "root cause" for the current budget shortfall for the State of West Virginia.

    • susanf1218

      And just how the hell do you figure that??

      • zero tolerance

        Sarcasm susan, it was meant yo be sarcastic.

        • stophating

          Teachers are the root of all evil... No one needs that fancy book learnin'. They shouldn't be paid, have a retirement, nor healthcare, and should drive the buses and clean the buildings....

    • workerbee

      Are you serious? State workers have not received a raise in about 10 years. No kidding. We're the last entity to get any kind of increase. Maybe you should look at the salaries and perks of your representatives and the current administration. Where were you, Zero Tolerance, when the newly appointed secretary was hired in at a salary of $185,000? Workers feel lucky when their salaries exceed $24000.

      and, thank you , Susanf218.

      • zero tolerance

        Sarcasm workerbee, it was intended to bee a sarcastic post.

  • jb

    Gee a politician that uses the word medicine instead of taxes!!!!! What will they think of next??

  • wvguy

    Why not cut some of the programs that keep people from finding a job. As long as you pay people not to work, they wont work. I don't understand why that is so hard to figure out. I see a lot of help wanted signs but no one will take an $8 to $10 hour job when they can get welfare for about the same amount. If you start cutting the programs that keep people from finding a job, they will start looking for work. I know a lot of people hate coal but when you make it not profitable to mine coal, you will lose a lot of jobs. If people don't have jobs they don't spend money, I don't understand why that is so hard to figure out. This state and the Obama administration has made it nearly impossible to open a new business. The permitting process and the environmental studies that has to be done in order to build anything is amazing. The government at all levels has regulated itself right into poverty

  • rick

    I really don't think that teacher pay raises are the main concern with this much of a budget shortfall. State employess are underpaid many times over compared to other States. It is certain that other employees will not get any raises in this or future years. The Legislature will find funding for what they want to fund any any budget year but there will be a lot of services taking big hits.

    • Interesting123

      "The Legislature will find funding for what they want to fund in any budget year"

      This is the truth. They have their reserve funds above and beyond the rainy day funds. They will always find the money for their priorities. If you don't like it, well, then stop voting for the same group of people and their recruited buddies every year.

    • Aaron

      Perhaps it is time to start privatizing as many of these functions as possible. Look at how well it's worked with Brickstreet. I can only imagine how much more efficient and how much money the state would save if they would only bid out highway maintenance as we did highway construction and that's only a start.

  • Myron

    The most important function of WV is the education of our youth. You can be assured that teachers will make their salary concerns known prior to the state of the state address.

    Salary increases are long overdue, and should be the priority.

    • wvtd

      when our children are no longer lag behind the rest of the nation in education then yes but until that day teachers are getting what they deserve. if it is so important why are the teachers doing such a poor job? unions always want more money and all they offer is poor results.

    • Jermane

      Where are those unperpaid and overworked teachers today? At the mall during their snow day. And they'll get another one on Monday. This is after they just had nearly two weeks off for Christmas break.

      Oops, I meant winter break. Can't say that horrible C word in school any more.

    • Seriously??

      Long over due? You got one last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. I also believe you get an automatic one this year from prior legislation.


      Damn teachers are nothing but a bunch of whiny cry babies who think they deserve top pay when their education is the worst in the country.

    • Aaron

      Like you, the teachers unions beat the same dead horse every year and like you, when legitimate questions or concerns regarding education are brought forth, the unions blame it all on parents and run.

      I understand why the majority of our legislature are reluctant to give additional raises.

      • susanf1218

        And you want to blame it ALL on the teachers! How can they teach children who come from dysfunctional homes with drugged out, worthless parents who don't give a damn if their kids learn or not? But somehow it is all the teachers' fault, right Aaron??

  • rick

    As long as most of your revenue comes from coal and gambling the result will be the same.

    • The bookman

      Coal and gambling play a role, and those decreases in revenues in both industries are hurting, but they do not make up the lions share of tax revenue in the state. In fact overall severance collections are up, but probably due to Marcellus extraction.

      http://www.governing.com/gov-data/state-tax-revenue-data.html

      We are consumption driven on the revenue side. It is ALL about jobs in WV. Increase employment in the private sector and it solves all the problems in short order. The shortfall is in individual income tax collection, read too many unemployed. Get hiring accelerating and it will impact both of the largest contributors to revenue, individual income tax and sales tax collection.

      • Hop'sHip

        How do we accelerate hiring, bookman?

        • The bookman

          Continuing on the path begun under Manchin and forward by Tomblin to create a more business friendly environment...much progress has been made as we continue to see interest from outside our borders...The best thing we can do is be financially sound, which was the point of this article. There are templates for success on the jobs front, but our business climate took decades to create. It will take time to remedy our inadequacies, but at least we are moving in the right direction IMHO!

          • Hop'sHip

            Thanks bookman, though I suspect there is little H in your O.

          • The bookman

            Being both humble and confident are not mutually exclusive, although it can be difficult to display both in such a dry forum. I think I have said this before, but I'll say it again. I don't have all the answers. My opinions are simply that, and if they do not contain gray areas, I offer no apologies! I will try to stay humble, as if I stray, I know you will be waiting to tell me!

          • stophating

            When are the jobs coming? If they don't come soon, end corporate welfare!

  • Benthere

    West Virginia......Detroit on a state level.

  • Aaron

    So we face dire financial conditions that merit hiring freezes, across the board budget cuts and funding shortfalls for state financed infrastructure projects that required a blue ribbon commission traversing the state seeking solutions to the financial difficulties faced by the DOH yet Sen. Kessler is going to propose a future fund, putting revenue from the gas industry into reserve to be spent at a later time.

    And not alone in seeing the irony of our current financial situation?

    • The bookman

      All we need now to complete the conversation is Stophating or Myron to pose the question of "What about teacher pay raises?" Sometimes individual agendas have to take a back seat to reality!

      • The bookman

        That's it! I'm playing the lottery tomorrow!

        • Aaron

          It's not like that prediction was a stretch, I wouldn't play too much.

      • Hop'sHip

        I was going to predict that The bookman would tell us if we lessen the tax burden on business people like him, we would have a surge of hiring that would flood our tax coffers with revenue from consumers' sales tax proceeds. The old trickle-down theory. But he is above pushing an individual agenda. So I won't predict that.

        • The bookman

          Thanks Hops, I think?

          • Aaron

            The reason WV ranks as such a poor place to do business has more to do with externalities outside the realm of our tax base. While we might be going in the right direction by phasing out the franchise tax, it will be gone next year, or by keeping the corporate tax level in place at 7%, if we do not provide businesses with adequate infrastructure and an educated workforce, they will not come.

            And like it or not, we are not moving in the right direction on either of those subjects. What we do invest in infrastructure in this state is far too often squandered on pet projects and the money we spend on education on every level is basically wasted dollars.

            Until we can provide adequate roads and an educated workforce for companies, they will not relocate to WV and we will continue in the endless cycle that we currently face. On both fronts, there is too much government interference protecting the status quo and neither Manchin nor Tomlin have changed that direction.

            While our politicians may be becoming more business friendly regarding taxes, on other fronts, nothing has changed.

        • Aaron

          You know, time and again, I see where liberal posters tell us that 'trickle down' or 'Reganeconomics' is a flawed policy that doesn't work but every time I look at actually economic data, the exact opposite is true.

          When Calvin Coolidge cut taxes, the roaring 20's ensued. Kennedy's rising tide that lifted all ships was working until tax increases needed to cover LBJ's Great Society pulled the plug. Reagan inherited economic conditions worse than Obama and within 4 years, unemployment was down, the stock market was on a Bull Run, total revenues increased and the economy rebounded, just as they did with the Bush Tax cuts.

          To me though, the proof is during the Clinton years. At a time when energy prices were at rock bottom levels and the economic outlook was through the roof, Clinton's first four years in office saw average growth with higher revenue increases coming only after the Clinton-Gingrich budget deal of 1996 that cut taxes on businesses.

          Liberals can talk all the trash they want about how trickle down does not work but the economic numbers do not seem to back that theory up. What we do know though, as admitted by the current administration, you do not raise taxes on a recovering economy as stated by Obama in 2009 yet he did just that in 2012 to appease his base. And instead of an upward economy as was the case in 1985 during Reganeconomics, we are still mired in economic conditions that rival the great depression.

          Sorry man but the numbers don’t lie.

          • The bookman

            In fairness to HH, he was talking about the reduction of corporate net income taxes and business franchise taxes at the state level , not national tax policy...I agree that he would also argue the value of cutting taxes at the national level to spur economic growth, but this conversation was about spurring job growth at the state level, competing with other states for new business and creating incentives for existing business to expand. Although I agree with you that Trickle Down works every time it's tried, at the state level we need to go slow so that growth replaces the immediate revenue lost through the tax cut. Economies are dynamic, not immediate cause and effect, and I like the direction we are going. It just takes time to unravel all the misguided decisions made over the last half century!

          • Jason412

            The old "horse and sparrow" theory, Trickle down economics, whatever you call it. It's been in use to a degree since the late 1800's.

            Aaron, One thing is, you have to also consider how much Reagen increased government spending, which also spurs new job growth. The federal debt was increased from $997 million in 1981 to $2.85 trillion in 1989.

            And to see how well it's really working, you have to look at increased income levels. Between 1979 and 2005 the bottom fifth of income earners increased after tax income by 6%. In the same time period the top 5th saw their income increase by 80%, while the top 1% tripled their income.


            If you reply I'll finish this thought, but I just realized this will probably go unread.

  • WV PATRIOT

    It's about time we need to elect officials that know how to read and understand both the WV Constitution and U. S. Constitution and be able to operate a calculator. We as citizens have been used as a Cash Cow to long and our elected officials should should have to basic understanding of business and finances. If we want to succeed as a State we need invest in technologies to clean up coal, not just putting our head in the sand and pretend everything OK. Status quo doesn't work, we need leaders, not politicians. This election vote every career politician out and bring in talent that has a proven track record. If not will somebody remember to turn out the lights when the last job in coal is gone.

  • CaptainQ

    Watch out! Bob Kiss is as good as saying "We MUST raise your taxes AND create new ones NOW!"

    Would the Dems take such a bold step during an election year? Stranger things have happened under the Capitol Dome before!

    • Jermane

      Of course they will. Because West Virginians are stupid enough to keep re-electing these same idiots over and over.

      Put a D beside a pig on the ballot and these morons will vote for it.

    • stophating

      Do you recall when Kiss was House Speaker? He did everything within his power to block every public employee pay raise..... He's just continuing what he did as Speaker.

  • The truth

    I can tell you now the state has basically had a hiring freeze for years. I know DHHR has 600 vacancies at any given time. This is about 10 % of the workforce. You also have almost complete turnover of staff in many positions every three years. So you are basically only paying entry level pay for almost every position. You also never move from this pay level because your not a political crony of Tomblin. One thing you never here about is cutting programs. With Obama care and the state and Feds attempting to make everyone eligible for Medicaid and food stamps I can say the workload has doubled for DHHR. Tomblin has been told again and again that DHHR is in a crisis but we hear nothing other than the DHHR Secretary creating another layer bureaucrat's to run the agency. This gets you audits saying DHHR loses 80 million a year in funding because they can only lurch from one problem to another.
    Tomblin needs to answer why he expanded Medicaid and what will the state do after two years when they have to pay a share.

    • susanf1218

      AND as if that isn't bad enough, now the damned HUD is "relocating" people from other states to come to WV to get free housing, free medical care via Medicaid, free food via Food Stamps, and whatever the hell other freebies the state, in all its benevolence, doles out! And we, the poor working stiffs get to pay for it all and work harder and harder w/less to show for it. Raises?? Forget it! And now the morons in Charleston want to institute hiring freezes so that fewer and fewer people will be expected to do more and more work to provide services for all the freeloaders and deadbeats that are flooding into our state! Gotta love WV, don't ya??

      • David Kennedy

        Thank you, Susan for telling just like it is...

      • Hillbilly

        Layoffs plus hiring freezes plus high turnover equals less employees, which is equivalent to less taxes, making the original problem of insufficient revenue worse...
        Susan, you always seem to see things the same way I do.

        • The bookman

          One state employee paid a salary of $20000 pays an effective tax rate of 4%, or $800. If the state saves $20,000 in salary, but as a result fails to collect $800 in taxes, they still realize $19,200 in cost savings. All of this is before backing in costs of state funded benefits. You see, state government employees receive their salary from State Tax Collections. I think we will be fine saving the $20,000 plus benefits at a cost of $800 rebated to the state in the form of uncollected WV State Income Tax. I would also suggest to you that the overall cost of state benefit package would easily exceed the $800 charge off to the uncollected tax, making the overall savings to the state in excess of the $20,000 salary. To state that government loses revenue by cutting government paid positions because of the lost tax collected from the employee baffles me, yet I have seen it utilized as an argument here many times.

          To take it one step further, it would behoove the state to not just cut the entry level positions but critically look at middle and upper management level positions to really get the bang for their cut.

          • susanf1218

            Fine. Cut all the state jobs. Then let's just hear you whine and complain because the DMV Office isn't open to accommodate you, or the DOH isn't maintaining the roads, or the DHHR isn't giving your your handouts. Yeah, state employees aren't necessary!

          • susanf1218

            And I can assure you that the jobs that are performed by state employees, which in your opinion are apparently unnecessary, would have to be provided via the private sector, and they would have a hard time finding people to work for $20,000. Hey, maybe you are right - let's privatize all those jobs so the underpaid an d underappreciated state employees might actually make a decent salary!

          • WhgFeeling

            Susan I do not feel The Bookman is saying to cut all state jobs. He simply is explaining the economics side of it. He makes a valid point. I am a friend to most state employees. I think using the argument that the state would lose out on tax revenue because of less state employees is in an essence lame.

            I firmly believe there is a place for most state employees, eventhough middle and upper management tend to be top heavy due to "making" up management positions to give a raise.

            Susan it is clear you are a state employee or related in some fasion so I would assume you know how it works in goverment.

          • The bookman

            Susan:

            You need to get a grip...I never said state employees are unnecessary. Just that the result of making cuts is a cost savings to state revenues. The loss of the collected tax is mute in that the tax paid to the state treasury was tax money to begin with, as it was part of a state salary. The fact is we have to operate with a balanced budget by state law, and when the state comes up short on projected revenue, cuts must be made. Does that make me happy? No! But I live in reality, not fantasy land!

          • Aaron

            Susan is right. Many of the services provided by the state should be privatized. The Department of Highways is one, the Department of Motor Vehicles is another.

            The services of both departments could be offered much more efficiently at a much lower rate with better results to taxpayers by a private company than they currently are offered by the state.

          • susanf1218

            Aaron - you miss the point of my comment. So, tell me, just how do you privatize programs like the DMV and the DOH, which by nature are not profit-making. Where, then does the money come from to pay the salaries, which I'm sure would be increased above the pitiful wages that state employees currently make?? What kind of private company would want to take on those programs?? What would be the benefit to them?? Better think about that before you think it is such a "good" idea.

          • The bookman

            Susan:

            It is already being done elsewhere. Government is wasteful in the execution of any enterprise. Bureaucracy eats away at what would otherwise be the profit. Why are you so quick to defend government agencies and programs? Any government employee I know complains about mismanagement and lack of adequate resources for the job they are asked to complete. As a business owner, I can't imagine having to know what needs to be done but being hamstrung from doing it. The private sector is so much more capable to handle virtually any task it is given, with fewer resources and better outcomes. Not because they have better people, but because they are motivated by profit.

          • Aaron

            I applied for a position with the DMV years ago Susan researching bad checks.

            As the position was related to me, I would do my research, input the results in an Excel spreadsheet and submit it to a supervisor who would check my work. If the work was adequate, it would then be submitted to another person who would input the information into a computer program and the process of collecting the check would begin.

            In a private company, the owner would hire someone and train them to research the data and input it directly into the program, thus eliminating 2 positions of wasted salary and benefits.

            There's your profit right there and I haven't even touched the DOH, which waste more money than they know what to do with.

            I'm not sure what the love affair you have with government employees is but it's sorely misguided. While I understand we need some levels of government, I agree wholeheartedly with Ronald Reagan's definition of the 9 scariest words in the english language.

            I"m from the government and I'm here to help.

            Run for the hills...

          • susanf1218

            I don't disagree that there is waste and mismanagement in government employment, particularly in the upper levels/beauracracy. My point is that the state employees in the lower levels - the ones who actually do the work, are underpaid and underappreciated for the work that they do to keep the state government programs functioning.

          • The bookman

            Susan:

            I don't disagree that those issues facing state employees are significant impediments to overall morale, but are symptomatic of the problem, not the problem itself. Paying them more without fundamentally changing government to become more efficient, either by privatization or improved resource management, doesn't address the problem.
            It only reinforces the status quo by rewarding poor overall efficiency and tax dollar utilization with increased salaries. Does that make any sense to you at all?

          • Aaron

            I had a good friend Susan who was one of those "low level state employees" that kept workers compensation working when it was a state ran program. She bemoaned upper management and how bad it was trying to get something done without being forced to get multiple levels of approval.

            When the department became privatized, she was assigned to a subsidiary of Brickstreet charged with investigating claims. Her pay increased along with her responsibility. What also increased was her workload. No longer was she responsible for a ~25 cases a month, she was responsible for 100 or more, her job was to investigate and forward her findings to a supervisor who made a decision and she went to the next case.

            She quit that job after 18 months and returned to state government, taking a $3.00 per hour pay cut. She now sets around at unemployment bemoaning how little she makes and how little responsibility they entrust her with despite her years of experience.

            I have little sympathy for the workers you describe. We the taxpayer foot the bill for all these state workers. We should demand the most efficient work results possible as the "profit" of a state employee is less spending which should mean lower taxes but for some reason, that never happens.

            If the departments we discussed were to be privatized, those low level employees that you claim make state government work would be fine if they choose to be.

            Or they would return to the doles of state government and continue to bemoan the lack of respect and low pay but we the taxpayer would be better off.

            How can you not see that?

          • susanf1218

            Aaron, I would bet your "good friend" isn't a friend any more, is she? With a "friend" like you, who needs enemies?

          • The bookman

            Are all your relationships so superficial that they cannot withstand an honest discussion where differences collide?

      • Hop'sHip

        Susan: Where can I find out more about "the damned HUD is 'relocating' people from other states to come to WV to get free housing, free medical care via Medicaid, free food via Food Stamps, and whatever the hell other freebies the state, in all its benevolence, doles out!"?

        • susanf1218

          Call the HUD office and ask them.
          Seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears.

          • Jason412

            Susan, if you read the article I posted from the intermountain HUD completely denies that, and says it makes no sense because the waiting list is so long. I know Elkins has a long waiting list, and it certainly has more HUD units then a city of it's size should, mostly ran by Seneca Realty.

            Are you saying if I call HUD they'll tell me it's the truth, and they lied to your local paper?

            Here's the article again
            http://www.theintermountain.com/page/content.detail/id/562422/Sequester-cuts-affect-local-HUD-funding.html?nav=5014

        • the truth

          This is how they do it with HUD. It goes to the Section 8 Program. This is how the scam is worked. Under the section 8 program of HUD your voucher can transfer to anywhere in the country. Many areas of the country have years long waiting list to get one of these vouchers. You do not have a waiting list for many areas in West Virginia because HUD does not pay market rate and many landlords do not accept HUD. So you have people "move" to West Virginia and apply for Section 8 housing and get the voucher. They then transfer it to their city of choice across the country. That is the scam.

          • Hop'sHip

            Thanks for providing an explanation but I'm still confused how the scam you described results in what Susan described as "HUD is 'relocating' people from other states to come to WV to get free housing, free medical care via Medicaid, free food via Food Stamps." If I understand your explanation, they use the state's situation (and I don't understand why the WV waiting list would be shorter because landlords refuse to participate - it seems this would decrease the number of available housing units and thus increase waiting times) to get a voucher and then quickly exit the state to "transfer it to their city of choice across the country".

          • susanf1218

            People have come here from Virginia and Maryland to Elkins, Philippi, and Parsons, of all places. Certainly not hubs of economic activity. And if they qualify for HUD, they are also eligible for various other government assistance programs, such as Food Stamps, Medical Card, etc. They are certainly not contributing anything to the state's economy but are certainly taking from the economy!

          • Hop'sHip

            Never mind. I think I understand the arguments against current housing voucher program after reading excerpts from the writings of Howard Husock of the Manhattan Institute.

          • susanf1218

            Jason412,
            ASK them WHY then are people coming from Baltimore, Virginia, and other places specifically to live in HUD housing?? They sure aren't here b/c of jobs! They can deny it all they want but that is the truth!

          • Aaron

            I would suggest Susan you read the article referenced.

          • susanf1218

            Aaron, I don't need to read the article when I have seen and heard from people who have been "relocated" that this is exactly how and why they ended up in WV!!

          • susanf1218

            And by the by, Aaron, did you happen to read the comments that were posted in reference to the article in the newspaper?? From people who live in Elkins and in some cases, live in or near the same properties to which these relocated people are moving, so I think they are pretty aware of what is going on.

          • Jason412

            To Susan the article is all lies, but the comment(singular, because only 1 references your point) As everybody here knows no one would ever tell falsehoods to further their agenda in a comments section.

            Stop acting like there was 100's of comments saying the same thing you are, when it was 1 comment.

  • zero tolerance

    B-O-H-I-C-A!