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Senate President Carmichael aims for middle ground on nondiscrimination bill

CHARLESTON, W.Va. — Senate President Mitch Carmichael found himself again at the center of debate around policy to prohibit housing and employment discrimination because of sexual orientation or gender identity.

Carmichael, who participated a few weeks ago on a panel of West Virginians in favor of anti-discrimination legislation, served Thursday morning as moderator for a panel of local religious leaders with concerns.

Also speaking up during the panel at the state Capitol were audience members — many of them business and religious leaders — who believe the legislation is necessary.

Almost everyone in the room said they are against discrimination.

But they differed on major details: whether a bill is necessary, the role of government’s involvement, whether religious liberties would be curtailed and if employers would be at risk of frivolous lawsuits.

As Senate president, Carmichael has power to influence those details. But it’s been challenging to pin down his position.

“It’s always controversial when I’m involved in an issue of this manner,” Carmichael said in his introductory remarks Thursday.

His appearance on a panel for Fairness West Virginia a few weeks ago gave the impression that he favors legislation, although he hedged that day on specifics. Fairness West Virginia put out a statement thanking Carmichael “for Supporting LGBTQ Nondiscrimination!”

But following that event, his public comments indicated he is against all forms of discrimination but not ready to push a particular bill.

And on Thursday, following the panel discussion, he said he’s still listening.

“I’m in the process of learning and discovering to make sure that all concepts — and that I’m aware of all the different aspects — of how a bill will affect this proposal,” he said.

He said he believes in several precepts that could shape legislation.

“Firmly against discrimination. Value the life and respect each individual life. And want to make sure our society and our religious freedoms are protected.

“So we’re trying to make sure that all of those components are incorporated — if there is to be a bill, that it would incorporate all of those aspects.”

A bill would add gender identity and sexual orientation to classes already protected under West Virginia law, including race, religion, national origin, gender, age or disability.

The religious leaders who gathered around a U-shaped table in the Senate Finance room all come from churches in the communities Carmichael represents. Almost all were from Baptist churches in towns like Gallipolis Ferry, Point Pleasant, Ripley and Hurricane.

Carmichael faces opposition in the upcoming Republican primary election from Delegate Jim Butler, a Mason County resident who has criticized the proposed nondiscrimination bill.

Jonathan Pinson, pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Point Pleasant, did most of the speaking for the church leaders on the panel.

“The topic at hand is controversial and polarizing,” Pinson said in his opening remarks. Then he added, “We are against all forms of discrimination.”

But Pinson said he and the other church leaders have been expressing concern about a possible nondiscrimination law to several lawmakers in their district.

“This law and similar such laws are detrimental to society as a whole,” Pinson said.

“If I take this Bible and do my best to be neutral for a moment and lay that Bible aside, I believe there are valid concerns that must be addressed with this type of legislation.”

He suggested a nondiscrimination law could be at odds with the ideal of religious liberty. He also contended a nondiscrimination law could be a threat to small businesses, resulting in a wave of frivolous lawsuits and insurance costs.

“What is the threshold to create a new protected class?” Pinson said. “I would urge you to forgo any action on this type of legislation.”

Other business and religious leaders — not formal members of the panel — stepped up to a microphone and disagreed.

William Klusmeyer, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of West Virginia, said a nondiscrimination law is necessary.

“In a perfect world we wouldn’t need it, but in the meantime we need the government to step in and protect those whose voices have been left in the dust,” Klusmeyer said.

Kerry Bart, pastor of First United Methodist Church in Barboursville, rose from his seat, went to the microphone and said he supports a nondiscrimination bill.

“Those protected classes exist because people were discriminating and people stood up and said that’s not right,” he said. “We need to stand up for another class that is disenfranchised.”

Andrew Schneider, executive director of Fairness West Virginia, said he was pleased to be invited to the session. He also stood and made remarks supporting a bill’s necessity.

“We are pleased that the Senate president is very interested in holding this conversation,” Schneider said, adding that he believes a statewide nondiscrimination bill has momentum.

Schneider said the session was a chance to hear concerns while still expressing support for the bill.

“It was designed to have the conversation, have the give and take. You clearly saw this wasn’t just one point of view in the room. It was all points of view,” Schneider said.

“I thought we had a healthy conversation indicating why this bill was so important. Even those who those who had some differences with the legislation, like Pastor Pinson, indicated he was opposed to discrimination. So I thought that was a good sign too.”





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