The Boy Scouts of America Wednesday did what many of us do when faced with a tough decision: they put off making it.
Now the Scouts say they’ll decide at their annual meeting in May whether to lift the ban on gay scouts and leaders.
“After careful consideration and extensive dialogue within the Scouting family, along with comments from those outside the organization, the volunteer officers of the Boy Scouts of America’s National Executive Board concluded that due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for a more deliberate review of its membership policy,” the Scouts said in a statement.
Evidently, the Scouts are struggling with the issue.
On one hand, the Boy Scouts are a private organization. A 2000 U.S. Supreme Court decision affirmed that, saying the Scouts could not be forced to admit homosexuals if doing so detracted from the organizations “expressive message” included in its code of conduct.
The Scouts are supported by a number of religious organizations, many (but not all) of whom regard homosexuality as immoral.
However, on the other side are a growing number of organizations and companies that support the Scouts who want to remove the ban.
The Wall Street Journal reports, “Two prominent members of the Scouts’ board, Ernest and Young, LLP, Chief Executive James Turley and AT&T Inc. Chief Executive Randall Stephenson vowed last year to work internally to make the Scouts more welcoming to gays.”
America is slowly becoming more accepting of homosexuality. A key indicator is whether people believe sexual orientation is a matter of birth or lifestyle.
The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life reports that the percentage of Americans who believe people are born homosexual has risen from just 20 percent in 1985 to 41 percent today. Those who believe a person is born gay are more likely to accept homosexuals for who they are, rather than believe they can or should change.
The mission of the Boy Scouts is to instill values in young people. The Scout Law speaks of honor, duty to God and country, to be physically strong and mentally awake, and morally straight.
The last requirement invites objections from those who believe adherence to a moral code is incompatible with homosexuality. However, it’s worth noting that there are young men who have achieved the revered status of Eagle Scout who are gay.
The Boy Scouts, as a private organization, do not face a legal obligation to be as accommodating as public institutions. Therefore, the Scout leaders who want to keep the ban may prevail.
However, the country’s views on homosexuality are evolving, and it’s likely that eventually—whether later this year or sometime thereafter—the Scouts will catch up.
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Comments
NorthernWVman
This is a private organization and they should be allowed to do as they pleased as to who they allow into their organization. Whether your for or against the LGBT community should not be the predetermining factor in this scenario. I would venture to ask how many caucasion people are openinly in the NAACP, Boys attending all girls schools/colleges, hunters in the PETA organization. My point is, this is a private entity and they should not be forced by either governemental or public pressure.
February 7, 2013 at 2:09 am | Report comment
ShinnstonGuy
Northern WV man,
No one is arguing they can't legally do it. However, the power struggle here is that corporate dollars are being pulled left and right from the BSA. So they pulled a politician's move and said they would leave it up to each scout troop. That was the least courageous move to take, and the religious side called them out on it. Now they are right back where they started--do they appease the religious side and go broke or do they appease the average American and stand to lose the diehard religious fanatics?
February 7, 2013 at 6:38 am | Report comment
Northern WV man
I would have to disagree that the average American would be appeased or not. The BSA is still pretty strong without allowing LGBT in. I also did not really mention the legality as much as the public pressure from special interest groups. I also did not give my opinion on the LGBT community. I gave my perspective merely from an organizational viewpoint.
February 7, 2013 at 11:05 am | Report comment
ShinnstonGuy
The BSA's proposed rule change had one stipulation: "Each troop will decide what is best for them." Wait, what? The BSA was seriously going to let each area decide on its own. Well we all know where this was headed: troops in liberal San Francisco would openly allow gays while a troop in conservative Alabama would not. That solution wasn't going to advance equality. In fact, we have been through this before, when the Supreme Court allowed separate facilities for blacks and whites as long as they were "separate but equal." That one really worked out, didn't it?
The prejudice of rural areas caused the migration of gays to major urban areas throughout the twentieth-century. It is no coincidence that New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, and Washington are gay mega-centers. They were the first places to welcome gays and not treat them as the devil's spawn. Today, when you look at the states that have equal rights, those are the states in which there is a large alternative population. Why? It's simple: when a person is around someone that is different, they realize the difference does not make that person scary or evil or strange. Therefore, they become more accepting. Why do you not see more gays in West Virginia, Montana, or Arkansas? It's because the gays there are afraid to come out--afraid to lose their family, afraid to lose their job, afraid to lose their house. It's not because there aren't any gays in the area. Just look at the coal miner employment story from a few years ago.
So in the rural areas gays are afraid to come out, the general populace is not exposed to them. This perpetuates the hate and therefore keeps the status quo of, "those people don't exist in our God-fearing state, so we will keep our laws against them." This type of discrimination perpetuates depression, fear, and suicide. The BSA was going to continue this suffering with this new policy. For those scouts that live in suburban areas, congratulations because you may soon be able to be out and proud. For those that live in the middle of nowhere, sorry, but the leaders of the BSA are too cowardly to help you out.
Now the religious side of the house is against this measure. What a surprise! And what did the BSA do, they backed down and said they need more time to think. That brings me a chuckle. I guess they never learned in America it is all or nothing, especially with the current political landscape. After the struggles of African-Americans for equal rights, you would think we could do better. Oh well, as they say, "Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
February 7, 2013 at 6:44 am | Report comment
Northern WV man
You talk a lot about the African American community in this post. Interesting you also said that the average American would be appeased by the allowance of gays in the BSA. Did the average American at one time promote slavery? So your rational IF the average American was actually in favor of forcing a private organization to allow something they do not believe in that is right. Trust me I am not against the LGBT community but I think this is a morally wrong fight on their part. The same would go for any organization to be forced to do something they find ethically wrong.
February 7, 2013 at 11:14 am | Report comment
hillbilly
The BSA is a PRIVATE organization, not public or government supported, therefore the same as Moose, Elks, etc. So why should they be forced to do something against their beliefs? Scouts also believe in God, so by the same token, atheists should not be allowed. This is a large group of kids with like beliefs, who want to learn things and grow and mature. Perhaps someone should start a similar organization if they feel left out.
February 7, 2013 at 1:31 pm | Report comment
Medman
Regardless of where you stand on gays and their rights, this is a loser for the Boy Scouts. If they decide to allow gay troop leaders, they will risk declines in membership and donations. Many Scout troops receive substantial support from churches for meeting space and other resources and that support may be at risk as well. If they decide to continue current policy, there will be continued outcries of discrimination from the Left. Either way, many folks may decide that it is not worth the hassle to have their kids involved in an organization that is in constant turmoil.It seems likely that there may be an attempt to create new organizations similar to the Scouts for people who want to preserve the historical organizational principles of that organization.
February 7, 2013 at 6:48 am | Report comment
Andy
It is stories like this that amaze me when there is a school shooting and people say "Where was God to protect the children".
February 7, 2013 at 6:51 am | Report comment
Jim N Charleston
Judging by the unis the scouts wear, there have been gays in for decades. Beige shirt & short shorts with a flat brim round hat & a bright red bandana tied around their neck looks less than masculine. Add in the bunch of buttons on the shirt they strive for & they look like they can march in any parade in San Fran.
Everyone has seen it for years. The only difference between the boy scouts & girl scouts is one group sells cookies.
Every one has known for years. The proof of that is the snl skit of Adam Sandler as Canteen Boy with the scout master played by Alec Baldwin. It's obvious.
February 7, 2013 at 8:02 am | Report comment
Medman
Jim, I am reluctant to make this discussion digress to a personal level, but your comment proves without question that you are a dou**he- bag of the first order. Some of the best leaders, honest citizens and executives in this country are former scouts and for you to insinuate that all scouts fit your twisted stereotype is deplorable and shows how crude your thinking has become. You need some help, sir.
February 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Report comment
hillbilly
I was in the Boy Scouts a long time ago. At age 11, who knows if they are gay or not?? By the time most teens turn 18 they still do not know, so I do not see where the problem is. I for one still do not agree with the gay lifestyle, although I do believe they are born that way... I grew up with a neighbor who had "wandering hands" and thoughts as early as age 4. So for me its a question of whether or not gay Scout leaders would impart their "lifestyle" upon the scouts. Most of the highly "effiminate" ones would not want anything to do with scouting (or the military) anyway.
February 7, 2013 at 8:24 am | Report comment
Shadow
I have had a hard time figuring out if they are talking about the leaders or the scouts. I agree with the comment that scouts at the entry age have no idea what they are. My concern is in the leaders and in them, only pedofiles. That is a hard characteristic to identify.
February 7, 2013 at 8:41 am | Report comment
Northern WV man
Actually percentage of pedophiles compared to opening homosexual is staggering low. Most pedophilia tend to describe themselves as heterosexual. The comparison of homosexual and pedophilia is a rather big misconception in our society. It's Basically saying a heterosexual female should not be a youth leader or teacher to an all male group. Just because they may prey in them.
February 7, 2013 at 11:22 am | Report comment
Shadow
I agree. I would hide in the biggest forest.
February 7, 2013 at 2:12 pm | Report comment
GregG
Ok, here is where I become lost. Your saying that "The Boy Scouts, as a private organization, do not face a legal obligation to be as accommodating as public institutions." Then my question is, how does one become a "private organization" that doesn't have any "legal obligations"? If a Moose Lodge is a "private organization" why does it have to respect a "no smoking" law created by a local health department? Why would a "private adult club" have to obey laws regarding prostitution? Maybe I'm having, as my wife says, a hard headed moment, but I just don't understand this "private organization" card that is being played.
February 7, 2013 at 1:09 pm | Report comment
mntnman
I have a gay sibling. It was hard watching him grow up here in Southern WV and facing the harassment and hardships he faced. He was a good fella then, and he is a fine man now. He works hard, pays his taxes, is honest and loving. I love my brother and his significant other of 15 years is part of our family. There is nothing "wrong" with him, he just has a different lifestyle. He is not a pedophile or a deviant. He just has a different lifestyle. It is not a choice I would make, but then he is not me.
I faced the issue of what to tell my children when they were young and discovered his lifestyle, particularly since we are Catholic. I told them what I just said, that he was a good guy with many fine character traits. I also told them the church considers his lifestyle a sin. They asked me what I thought and I reminded them that it is not our place to judge; that we are told to "judge not, lest we be judged". We all have our faults and are all sinners. So, I said, sweep around your own door -- deal with the moat in your own eye. His lifestyle is between he and God. I am NOT part of that equation.
It was hard for him growing up here. He did join the boy scouts and enjoyed it. He did well in the organization, not quite getting to Eagle Scout. But he loved it. The scouts did him good, and he did the scouts good. So I wonder what the problem is in this situation. I wonder why its such an issue. Oh yeah, I remember now, people are involved. Prejudiced, biased, holier-than-thou people are involved. Never fails.
February 7, 2013 at 1:47 pm | Report comment
Shadow
I think you speak to the correct issue. Too many people believe that it is a life choice, not a matter of natural happening. I suppose I grew up with a lot of gays and worked with them but it has never been an issue. Let and let live should be the theme.
February 7, 2013 at 2:18 pm | Report comment
Billyboy
The problem is that no one really cares if someone is gay or not. We just don't appreciate them needing to be in our face 24-7 screaming for equality. Would they be as boisterous in Iran? If you want to be a boy scout or a leader it is easy , stay in the closet, follow the rules and please just shut up!!!
February 7, 2013 at 2:53 pm | Report comment
mntnman
The problem is that some people do care if people are gay or not, and they discriminate against them.
And what has Iran got to do with it? Are you comparing the USA and our lives with those in Iran? Are you suggesting we should be like Iran? Or just that Iran executes gay people.
As for hiding your life, why should someone have to do that? Same argument was made when women wanted to vote, have equal pay, etc. Its weak, weak I tell you.
February 7, 2013 at 3:02 pm | Report comment
steve
question????do the girl scouts allow lesbians in their organization?????
February 7, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Report comment
hillboy
from what I have read, the Girl Scouts do not have a policy one way or the other regarding sexual orientation and as a result lesbians are not excluded. The same for atheism, the Girl Scouts, I am told, do not have a policy that explicitly forbids atheists from participating. The Boy Scouts do.
February 7, 2013 at 4:08 pm | Report comment
whatistruth
Judging - we do it all the time. We have to judge whether things are true or not; do we do it or not?. So to say we are not to judge is only true of one area that we have no control - the eternal destination of a soul. Only God has that call.
But in order for a decision to be made by the Boy Scouts, they must make a judgment on whether to permit gay scout leaders. And the argument for or against has been made in the many comments regarding this issue. The biggest challenge America faces is "What is truth?" and mankind's wisdom is limited to what we deem as true based on ever changing facts and opinions. (Are eggs good for us or not? Once they were. Then they were not. And now they are.) So if the standard by which the Boy Scouts use is based on mankind's opinion, then gay scout leaders should be accepted. But if the standard by which the Boy Scouts use is based on a God who is constant, the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, then they must remain true to their convictions.
I hear the argument being made that because more people are now accepting that people are born as homosexual, the lifestyle must be accepted as the norm. Well, this argument, "born or choice?", has changed multiple times in my lifetime. It seems like the answer given depends upon the person giving it.
So how can I know which is true? There are homosexuals who have vowed they were born with an attraction for the same sex from a very early age and can't change that. There are other homosexuals who have vowed that it was their choice to be attracted to people of the same sex and want others to accept their choice. And there are other homosexuals that have used one or both arguments to validate their attraction to the same sex, but who have had a conversion experience with Jesus Christ and are now married and attracted to people of the opposite sex.
So why do I even bring this up? I say all this because of the dilemma mankind's opinion creates for us in determining truth. That is why I have chosen to use God's standard, the Bible, as my standard for which to live and to make judgments.
And so the real choice for the Boy Scouts is not in what people believe they should do. No it is in what they really believe. And if they really believe in what they say they believe, then they will stand upon the standards they have held on to from their creation.
February 7, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Report comment
mntnman
Judging people, and making judgments about things is NOT the same thing, no matter how you may spin it. And just because we do it all the time does not make it right. Nazis judged that Jews were inferior. Early Americans judged africans and native americans were inferior. For years (some still now) men judged women inferior. The idea that because people judge and do it all the time it is somehow OK is an absurdist notion. Judging others has been used to justify the worst atrocities in the history pf mankind. So please, don't compare judging people with making a judgment about a situation. They are NOT the same thing.
February 8, 2013 at 11:52 am | Report comment
wvman75
What's the Bible say?
February 8, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Report comment
Miles
Hoppy is on the money with this one.
Enjoying and appreciating the outdoors is something that all children should be able to experience regardless of sexual orientation. Hiking the trails and enjoying the beauty of West Virginia is something all children should experience. Scouting has always been a positive vehicle for those memories. The same that inspires me to take my kids hiking on weekends.
My Scout Master in Morgantown went to jail for molesting a fellow scout. Harboring pedophiles is a much bigger issue than sexual preference. The BSA has just recently agreed to release those files. This is only one issue.
Another, the Scouts for the most part enjoy tax exempt status. Your tax dollars are paying for their right to be a "private" organization. We are letting them skate on taxes behind their private beliefs. They are by no means a "Chick fil a." They pay taxes and have a right to self expression whether you agree or not.
Their beliefs are something that no West Virginian or American should have to pay for.
Miles Montgomery
Seattle, WA
February 9, 2013 at 2:54 am | Report comment